Curse

Zardaeleon · Aug 11, 2007, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Ok, this game seriously needs to be changed and the top 100 redefined. I have earned almost all of my 1200+ gamer points playing rollerbeetle racing, I am almost always first place, and I've earned over 1000 victory tokens playing this game. For anyone who is doing their math that means I've been first well over 100 times if I earned the majority of those tickets while first. My highest scores have been in the 472-473 range and if not for bad luck I'm sure I'd have at least one score in the top 100.

Anyway, this game is seriously broken. It's nearly impossible to make it in the top 100 and I know at this point, in spite of the countless hours I've played and all the times I've been number 1 that I will never get a rollerbeetle miniature (if they are even still offered, which I am nowhere near certain of). Getting in the top 100 is completely luck based. I know, I know there's some skill in there too. But if you don't get the super beetle/echo combo fast enough, you're not gonna make top 100. If some guy jacks you right before the perfect time to hit a boost, you're not gonna make top 100. I'd like to see a few things to make the rollerbeetle experience more enjoyable:

1. No more box camping. Make every box available to your beetle only once. Box camping is the way I've won the majority of the times I have. In spite of people wanting to play an honest game and have a fair race, I can easily pass by people that don't box camp 95% of the time if I camp for a echo/super beetle combo. Don't get me wrong, I love winning, I like the gamer points. It sucks for people who are playing it honestly though.

2. Better hit detection. For some reason the shield doesn't work all the time, and the ram seems to hit things in crazy amounts at times. You get caught up on random walls, etc.

3. Make the game less laggy. Honestly, there was once I was on a run that I swear would've made top 100, I hit the bridges, lagged back, and all was lost. I posted in the 473 range much to my horror.

4. Make the top 100 based on victories in a given period, or total points accumulated, or anything that is based on just skill instead of a crazy skill/luck combination.

5. Make rollerbeetles attainable as a miniature for everyone. If they've given out 100 each time they've made racing available (even though the same few people are top 100 every time) then so far we have 400 or so minis among millions of gamers. Seriously? 400 out of millions? That's absolutely insane. I've spent a lot of time playing the beetle racing, and honestly I'm pretty good. Why don't I ever have a realistic shot at getting a mini for it?

I think this game is really honestly fun. I get a lot of joy watching my little tiger striped beetle roll around and make awful noises. I think it's great, I just wish some little things about it would change.

Winterclaw · Aug 11, 2007, 02:32 AM // 02:32

The game is as much about luck than it is about skill. Tough cookies.

Zardaeleon · Aug 11, 2007, 03:42 AM // 03:42

My complaint isn't that there is luck involved, just that for top 100 it is too much luck. I couldn't have won all the races I have without skill.....it's the luck component being the linchpin of a top 100 time that bothers me. Not just the luck of drops, but the luck that you won't rubber band. Why is it that when someone makes a legitimate complaint about the game someone who is just complacent has to down them for it or make some comment like "tough cookies". I'm not whining, avoiding the game, not telling anyone not to play it, or even saying I won't play it. I'm just making a suggestion to improve it for all the people who are playing it constantly (I'm not the only one). The best part is that the sort of comment you made it's always delivered by someone who can barely write a sentence. (note: the first sentence in your reply doesn't make sense)

julien · Aug 11, 2007, 03:48 AM // 03:48

You spend your time on a mini-game.. anyways your choice

Curse You · Aug 11, 2007, 06:03 AM // 06:03

The top 100 means nothing. The only time it mattered was during the Canthan New Year event.

MrFuzzles · Aug 11, 2007, 10:27 AM // 10:27

The problem isn't really that it's a partly luck-based game. The problem is that it's a partly luck-based game that gives out a rare reward.

Iuris · Aug 11, 2007, 10:35 AM // 10:35

It doesn't give out a reward any more at all. Just tokens and gamer title points.

Darkobra · Aug 11, 2007, 12:00 PM // 12:00

I personally play Rollerbeetle Racing for fun. If I was wanting to grind for tokens and gamer points, I'd probably have better luck in Dragon Arena. But to me, it's not as fun as Rollerbeetle Racing. I think the luck element gives the newer or less skilled people a good chance of winning too.

LONGA · Aug 11, 2007, 12:21 PM // 12:21

Well having win a lot of Roller beetle racing.I usually lose to those lucky box camper.
Next time I found them in a race I usally give up my position and camp when they likely to camp.Usually the 2 box in the water at 2nd check point
Or if have distracting lung gave them a good time box napping and go.Unless they just lucky enough to get those Echo ,Super roller beetle again.
which I think that mechanic of distracting lunge should change that scale on how many skill they got on their bar and stop them using any skill not just disable them.

Well Dev can improve the game a bit by counting KD, KD prevented and how many box they got to calculate the finaly score.Not just their slot machine luck.

Mr. G · Aug 11, 2007, 02:01 PM // 14:01

What this? PvE that requires skill not grind! KILL IT

(theres a nice grave next to the mesmer for that)

Zardaeleon · Aug 11, 2007, 04:50 PM // 16:50

My point is that it's not just skill based.....the box camping is waaaaaaayyyy too effective. It essentially is the ultimate way to win. In PvP if it were possible to win almost every time by just standing in one spot until you got an uber powerful buff then you went and conquered the competition people would complain it was broken. I wish that players didn't have that ability and it was more competitive for people that weren't into box camping as a way to constantly beat people who want to seriously play the game.

Winterclaw · Aug 11, 2007, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zardaeleon

Why is it that when someone makes a legitimate complaint about the game someone who is just complacent has to down them for it or make some comment like "tough cookies".

Events like this are going to bring out a lot of players and the lag they cause with them. If you insist on special playing weekend events like this one, you have to figure that there's going to be a lot of lag to deal with. This is why I don't even bother with RBR anymore and try to avoid these events.

Now I wouldn't mind it if Anet automatically gave the prize to anyone who finished above a set time or took lag into account when they designed these things, but until they do, tough cookies.

Zardaeleon · Aug 11, 2007, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Now I wouldn't mind it if Anet automatically gave the prize to anyone who finished above a set time or took lag into account when they designed these things, but until they do, tough cookies.

That is by far the best idea I've heard in all of the conversations with people I've had about this. It would be a great idea...a certain number of wins, or a certain time getting you a prize. Great one Winterclaw.

Komradkyle · Aug 11, 2007, 08:32 PM // 20:32

I earned over 4000 points by being glued to the computer for 2 weekends But i only wanted numchuck skills cause I really liked that title and there isn't a benefit for the other ones. I'd rather get the lucky bonus for picks. They need to work the system so it only saves a players top score not the net top scores cause u see Dragon du porzan, martin alveto etc on there like 50 times, and I was literally 2 seconds from getting a beetle the first time, Also new maps would be good.

Martin Alvito · Aug 12, 2007, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zardaeleon

Getting in the top 100 is completely luck based.

Patently false. The box luck is fairly consistent (you can pull a top 100 run a couple times an hour if you really know what you're doing).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zardaeleon

If some guy jacks you right before the perfect time to hit a boost, you're not gonna make top 100.

You have a distracting lunge, too. Best policy in rollerbeetle is do unto others before they can do unto you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zardaeleon

1. No more box camping. Make every box available to your beetle only once. Box camping is the way I've won the majority of the times I have. In spite of people wanting to play an honest game and have a fair race, I can easily pass by people that don't box camp 95% of the time if I camp for a echo/super beetle combo. Don't get me wrong, I love winning, I like the gamer points. It sucks for people who are playing it honestly though.

Watched Yuris Sayuri lately? You don't HAVE to boxcamp to make top 100.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zardaeleon

2. Better hit detection. For some reason the shield doesn't work all the time, and the ram seems to hit things in crazy amounts at times. You get caught up on random walls, etc.

That's a symptom of the problem in #3.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zardaeleon

3. Make the game less laggy. Honestly, there was once I was on a run that I swear would've made top 100, I hit the bridges, lagged back, and all was lost. I posted in the 473 range much to my horror.

I lost a 483 that way one time to a band at the last gate. It happens. Best policy is to take lines that don't involve situations where the game can lag you. Don't touch other beetles, stay clear of walls, etc. There's a specific line on the bridges that will generally keep you from banding.

I would prefer that nine rings go die in a fire so that I could get a decent connection during the events when I can play rollerbeetle, but we all know that won't happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zardaeleon

4. Make the top 100 based on victories in a given period, or total points accumulated, or anything that is based on just skill instead of a crazy skill/luck combination.

It's fine as is. I'd prefer that there not be duplicate entries myself, but they aren't going to code it; they're piggybacking off the scoring system for the competitive missions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zardaeleon

5. Make rollerbeetles attainable as a miniature for everyone.

No.

Zardaeleon · Aug 12, 2007, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Well Martin, I know you're one of the best. No doubt about it...but I still disagree with you about a few things.

A couple of times in an hour? Maybe. That still doesn't address the problems I have with the game.

You don't HAVE to box camp to win the game either...but you can, and it works. A lot more often than it doesn't work as a matter of fact....How many top 100s have you made without camping at all? Were those luck based? I'm not saying it doesn't take skill...it takes skill to break 470 at all, in some cases to break 465.

There's a specific line on the bridge that keeps you from banding? Really? That addresses that problem too....Look I'm sorry for the sarcasm but that's not really a solution. And it's super lame to be on a good run (my score of 473 was on a run where I totally rubber banded on the bridge and it could have been so much better) and then have it ripped away from you because of something like that. 483 would've been super...while you have the attitude of "it happens" some of us aren't in the top 100 multiple times, and have been trying really hard to actually get there. So for the person that isn't as enlightened as you it can be a big deal to lose that chance.

We all know that nine rings won't go away during times we rollerbeetle race....they could offer it on weekends where there's no nine rings...but that more than likely won't happen. So on some level the lag caused in general by the combination of uber events is kinda broken.

You mean people at the top see no problem with the system? I'm absolutely shocked. Of course you think the top 100 is fine as it is. You are a great rollerbeetle racer, but there are a lot of people out there playing it to win, not just make top 100 runs...they could have a scoring system for that. For some people it's a matter of being less laggy, being blessed by fate (oh man 4 super beetles in one run!) or being in an region that has less lag than some of us do. So it's not entirely skill based (I suppose nothing is) and that is kinda lame. I'm sure it feels great to come upon that great run where you get lucky in that hour or so....but outside of that how many top 100 runs are you making? Which is my point, there are a lot of really skilled players out there, winning in the system, getting gamer points, etc...but you won't make it onto a top 100 list. I'd even be satisfied with a separate consecutive victories top 100 list.

And why be elitist about the miniature? I'm sure it's great to have a little trophy, no doubt one that 100(or so) out of all the people that have done a ton or rollerbeetle racing has. There are a ton of people out there trying very very hard to break into that top 100, and I agree that not everyone can do it. I'm not trying to take that away from you, but I like the miniatures a lot...and I'd like one of a rollerbeetle. They could make one of a different design (instead of greased lightning maybe offer one that has a red design, etc) and it wouldn't take away from what you or anyone else that has made the top 100 has done. It's just a decoration after all.

Martin Alvito · Aug 12, 2007, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Look, I camp the boxes too. It's effective, and I've got down how to pull it off. However, you simply don't have to do it, and as it turns out it's much more consistent to run it the way Yuris does. Sure, you're still playing box lotto (he finishes 460-465 if he never lands a super, and he needs to draw a super along the way for 475+), but it works.

How do you make top 100 a couple times an hour? Lot of /resign. Run goes bad, get a new one. I play stretches for time and I play stretches for wins and points. I've won 20-30 in a row a few times by playing more "legitimately"; it's actually not that hard to shaft box campers if you know what you're doing. I haven't played for gamer points often of late, as I haven't broken 481 yet and it's getting irritating.

As for the line on the bridge - obviously it doesn't solve the problem, but it's not like ANet doesn't know about the lag problems, banding, etc. They clearly are taking the approach that "We were nice enough to give you this minigame, and we're not going to recode it to fix its problems to make players a little happier with it. Deal."

I was as bent about losing the 483 as you were about missing the top 100. After all, no one's done it. But there's nothing to be gained by staying mad about it.

As for problems with the scoring system - I used to feel as you do. Then I saw Yuris post a 476 without ever sitting on a box and I changed my mind VERY quickly.

And as for the mini - why be elitist about it? Dark and I put a LOT of time and effort into figuring out how to post top times during the first weekend. The beetle's rare, and I earned it the hard way. I'd prefer to not see mini beetles in districts every time I turn around.

Zardaeleon · Aug 12, 2007, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Look, I camp the boxes too. It's effective, and I've got down how to pull it off. However, you simply don't have to do it, and as it turns out it's much more consistent to run it the way Yuris does. Sure, you're still playing box lotto (he finishes 460-465 if he never lands a super, and he needs to draw a super along the way for 475+), but it works.

That's great that it works for Yuris, I'm not doubting his skills. His ability to do that without box camping doesn't change that box camping is obviously kinda broken, especially for all the people that I constantly demolish through box camping. I'm sure in the races where people spend some time trying to learn the game and can't even finish because I've absolutely destroyed them they'll take some solace in the fact that Yuris can do what I do without box camping.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

How do you make top 100 a couple times an hour? Lot of /resign. Run goes bad, get a new one. I play stretches for time and I play stretches for wins and points. I've won 20-30 in a row a few times by playing more "legitimately"; it's actually not that hard to shaft box campers if you know what you're doing. I haven't played for gamer points often of late, as I haven't broken 481 yet and it's getting irritating.

So you make a high rank in the game by constantly resigning from it when the luck element doesn't pan out? Good times....that sounds like a real challenge...well I got screwed this round /resign...I'm just saying isn't that against the point of playing the game? That doesn't reward you for playing, it rewards you for luck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

I was as bent about losing the 483 as you were about missing the top 100. After all, no one's done it. But there's nothing to be gained by staying mad about it.

I'm not mad (although I was quite upset at the time), I'm just trying to add something to the game. Suggest a change, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

As for problems with the scoring system - I used to feel as you do. Then I saw Yuris post a 476 without ever sitting on a box and I changed my mind VERY quickly.

Again, great that he can do that. I posted 471 once without camping a box and without even touching a box or two that I normally hit. That doesn't mean the scoring system isn't broken, isn't competitive in a way that rewards you for actually playing the game, or even doesn't contain elements that are unfair.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

And as for the mini - why be elitist about it? Dark and I put a LOT of time and effort into figuring out how to post top times during the first weekend. The beetle's rare, and I earned it the hard way. I'd prefer to not see mini beetles in districts every time I turn around.

Hey, a lot of people have put a lot of time and effort into rollerbeetle racing. I understand the mini is rare. I even suggested a way for you to keep your rarity while the rest of the people have some sort of mini beetle for their efforts. It's a cool trophy for you, congratulations. My idea of allowing everyone who plays to get some sort of trophy in no way takes away from your accomplishment. Especially if the mini that everyone can get somehow has a different design or something. They could even let you trade in 1000 vic tokens for one, or make it so only people with a certain number of victories in rollerbeetle racing could have it. It wouldn't take away from what you've done, and then other people could have something neat as well.

enderdream · Aug 13, 2007, 03:56 AM // 03:56

I think the box camping for the "perfect" combo is kindda lame and makes the game less fun for those of us who are interested in playing and having fun vs the super competitive people who take advantage of the system.

I agree that the scoring system needs to be changed. Just by adding another list of top scorers would solve that. Keep the list showing the top scores, but add another showing the top 100 people and their top wins (without duplicates like there always are in the top 100 scores). It's not fair that the same 3 people are always listed 75% of the time on the list, while the other people who have put a lot of time and effort into being good are never acknowledged. Adding the extra list would help that in my opinion.

As for the minis, I do think they should be rare because it is a great accomplishment and you should be proud and have something to show it off. But there is something to be said for top number of wins, or most races or something. I think Zardaeleon's idea of having different designs would be a good idea too. So the top 100 scores would get beetles that looked one way, the top 100 wins would get a different. That's still a super rare mini, only 200 people out of how many??? And it would give props to those who actually finish the race instead of being lame and exiting before the end. And that way it would be more fair....who can finish and win the most.

Curse You · Aug 13, 2007, 04:06 AM // 04:06

There will be no Miniatures handed out at the end of this event. I was in ID 1 with Gaile, and she distinctly said that there would be no Miniatures given to the top 100. So really, what does it matter, as long as you win?